Full Webinar Transcript

Laura Thompson (00:00:30):

All right, we are going to go ahead and get started today. I am so excited for this webinar that we are going to cover today. This is key Communication Concepts for Effective Conflict Resolution with David Dowling. My name is Laura Thompson. I’m the senior marketing manager here at Health-e Pro, where we provide menu planning and nutrient analysis software primarily for school districts. So we’re going to go through a little bit of the agenda today for the first thing with housekeeping. This session is being recorded, so if you have to step out or if you wanna pass it along to a colleague, we will be sending this recording in an email that will go out tomorrow. So keep an eye out for that. Going to introduce David. We’re going to hear from his presentation on conflict resolution, and then we’re going to leave about 15 minutes at the end for a Q&A, and then we’ll wrap it up in case, if you missed David’s session with us about a year and a half ago, we’re going to drop the link to that in the chat below.

Laura Thompson (00:01:27):

So check that out. It was hilarious, entertaining, but also very, very interesting and insightful with a lot of tips and tricks for how to handle difficult conversations. What do you need to do to go into a conversation that’s going to be hard? All of those kinds of things. So check that out in the chat and enjoy it. And then this session will build on that. So if you have any questions for our Q&A at the end, go ahead and put those in the Q&A box at the bottom. We’ve also cataloged a lot of the questions that have come through as you’ve registered. And so we’ve grouped those and tried to figure out, okay, which are the common questions a lot of people have been asking. So we’ll use some of those as well during the Q&A session at the end.

Laura Thompson (00:02:05):

With that, we’ll do the introduction here. So David is a dear friend of mine. I’ve actually known him for over 10 years now. We’ve gone to church together for that amount of time. And he’s the owner of Dowling Mediation Services and also teaches at Pepperdine’s Law School. He’s a communication extraordinaire, if you will, and has incredible gifts and skills in communication, in conflict resolution. Also works with school districts as well. So I hope that you’ll be able to find just a lot of value and a lot of insight with his experience and his skillset that he’s going to share with us today. So, David, we are so excited to hear from you today. Thank you so much, and excited to hear what you have to teach us.

David Dowling (00:02:43):

Thank you, Laura. I’m so grateful for the opportunity to be here with you all today. I know that some of you are joining us from, excuse me, from across the country. So thank you for taking the time out of I know what is a busy day. It’s a tough time in the school year, right? Because we’re approaching the holidays and things are amping up and getting really busy. So we are really grateful that you have taken the time to be with us. So, as Laura explained, I am a mediator. This is what I deal in and what I teach. I teach mediation and negotiation skills, conflict and dispute resolution skills. I mediate a wide range of cases everything from family and divorce disputes through to a lot of legal disputes, working with the courts. And so I’m gonna be sharing some skills and tips and hopefully some things that you can take away with you that you can use in what you do.

David Dowling (00:03:34):

So, couple of things that we’re gonna address today is how to respond to emotion without escalating. It’s something that we see in, in our life and in our practice. And a lot of these skills, I hope that you’ll consider how you can apply them into your own personal lives, right? We all have conflict. We all deal with conflict in different ways, but how we respond to people in moments of emotion, people get angry, they get upset without causing that to escalate how to say no with confidence and clarity. And one of the things that I saw, I think repeatedly in some of the questions that you shared, was this idea of how to deal with people up and down, right? So we report up and we also deal with you know, colleagues that we work with that report to us on how to have those conversations and deal with those tough moments.

David Dowling (00:04:22):

And then how to ask questions to keep the dialogue on track. And really, one of the things that we need to do is, I think I saw in some of the questions that you all shared, you know, there are, there are moments that we work with people who we try to help them through empathy. We have a lot of different issues and problems. How do we keep people engaged? How do we focus them in the conversation without it kind of going off track? So I love this picture, and I love this thought, and this was shared with me recently by a friend, that people are like cars, right? We get stuck in our conflict stories. And if you’ve ever been stuck in a car either in the snow or the mud or anything like that, what happens is the wheel just starts spinning and spinning and it spins up.

David Dowling (00:05:04):

You can see all this dirt, all this mud. But when we get caught in our conflict stories, think about this, right? When we are stuck in a conflict story, we are just spinning our wheels. We’re not getting anywhere. We get angry, we get frustrated. We call it a conflict spiral. And that’s what happens to people is they get into this spiral. There’s no way out for them. But those conflict stories are experiences, and the people that you work with, right? People that report to you, they feel very angry. They feel very frustrated with what’s going on with them. It might be in their own personal lives, it might be in their work situations, but they bring those stories with them because it’s hard for us to get out of it. You know, those moments where something’s going on, somebody’s frustrated you, whatever else, and you just can’t let go of it.

David Dowling (00:05:45):

And you talk about it at work, you talk about it at home, you talk about it in your social life. And so this is what happens to us. So we’re gonna look at some ways, some tools that hopefully can help us to feel unstuck in those moments or tools that you can use, tools that you can bring into your work situation that can help the people that you work with. So I’m gonna start out by talking about Thomas Kilman and Thomas Kilman. These are two social scientists. And what they did was they studied how we deal with conflict, and they looked at our own conflict modes and approaches to conflict. And so what they did was they grafted out, and we’re gonna go through each of these, but I want you to look at the the X and the Y axis, right?

David Dowling (00:06:27):

So we have honoring our own interests along the y axis, and then along the bottom, we have honoring the interests of others. So these are these moments where, what are we doing? How are we dealing with others? Are we putting our own needs and interests ahead of others? And that’s to be competitive. Or are we putting the needs and interests of others ahead of our own? How do we, and in order to be able to be effective in conflict and dispute resolution, you have to think about how do you deal with conflict. So first and foremost, what I would suggest is, as I go through these different, these five different approaches to conflict, I want you to think about how do you deal with conflict in certain situations? Because in certain moments of my life, I, I’m one way, I’m one approach to conflict, and others, I’m very different.

David Dowling (00:07:19):

So I want you to start thinking about where do you fall on this? And then start to think about your colleagues, the people that you report to, and the people that report to you. Where are they on this spectrum? Where do they fall? And how can you help them and think about it? So we’re gonna go through each of these step-by-step. So the first one is avoiding how many times in conflict situations do we avoid, right? So avoiding is being unassertive and uncooperative when avoiding an individual does not immediately pursue his or her own interests or those of the other person, right? Simply just don’t do anything with conflict. We just want to avoid it. So I’m a dad, I have four kids. And I’ll tell you this with my kids sometimes that’s when I’m a conflict avoider, right? So especially one or two of them.

David Dowling (00:08:07):

When, when things come up, I’m like I don’t, I don’t want to deal with it, right? I’d rather stick my head in the sand and just pretend like nothing’s happening. So there are those moments where it’s easier to just avoid conflict. Just, just let it happen, right? Because we don’t know how to respond, or we choose not to respond, because we’re worried that if we do respond, things will escalate. So, some moments in life, we might be avoiders for some people, some of you out there, that might be your approach to everything. You’re always avoiding conflict. Then we have competing. So competing is where you assert your own interests above everybody else. So this is that, as it says, it’s a power oriented mode, right? So when competing an individual pursues his or her own concerns at the expense of everyone and everything else, right?

David Dowling (00:08:58):

So it’s putting my own needs and interests because I want to win. Now, in some moments, being competitive is a good thing. I teach negotiation skills, and Laura and I have talked about this, about doing a fun kind of class on, on core and basic negotiation skills, if that’s something you’re interested in, maybe not. But it’s really fun. I love, and I kind of nerd out about it, right? About negotiation skills and how important they are. I I don’t find myself to be a very competitive person, but when I’m doing certain behaviors, like if I’m going to buy a car, some people hate buying cars. They hate going in, they hate having to deal with that whole thing, but I actually enjoy it because then I use it to teach my class. So when I’m buying a car, I’m very competitive because I want to get the best price possible.

David Dowling (00:09:45):

Now, some of you are very competitive. Some of you are athletes. I’m not an athlete. Seriously not an athlete. But here’s the thing is, some of you are athletes and competing and being at the top of your game is important. But we also know people who put their own needs and interests ahead of everybody’s, right? So I want to do this. This is what we’re gonna do. This is the way we should do things. I this is the right way to do things because I said so and so, we have this competitive drive when we are competitive in that sense, and especially in the work dynamic, what we’re doing is we’re neglecting the needs and interests of anybody else on our team or anybody else that we work with. So my needs and interests go first. So that competitive approach can be detrimental to those relationships that we have.

David Dowling (00:10:32):

Now, we think competitive, strong personality, win-win, win, accommodating. Well, isn’t that a nice thing, right? So an accommodator is unassertive uncooperative, right? Cooperative. it’s the opposite of competing as it says there, when accommodating, you neglect your own needs and interests to satisfy the needs and interests or concerns of the other person, right? So there’s this sense of self-sacrifice. I’m gonna go back to the model, and I want you to take a look at this. At the top there, you’ll see compete. On the opposite end, you’ll see accommodate and what Thomas and Kilman. So it’s actually two social sciences. What they realized was that competing is the one extreme and accommodating is the other end of the extreme. So we think that by being accommodating, we’re doing something good. But what they said is that we’re not actually honoring or respecting our own needs and interests.

David Dowling (00:11:27):

Now, we’re all a accommodators to some degree, right? Laura and I we are good dear friends. And so we might go grab lunch, and Laura will say, where do you want to go? And I’ll say wherever you want, because the relationship matters. And I’m like, I’m fine accommodating, right? So whatever’s interesting to you what do you wanna watch on TV tonight? I don’t mind. Whatever you wanna watch, right? So a lot of times in life we might be accommodating. Sure, I don’t mind. Do you want to do this at this time? I don’t mind. Whatever you wanna do. But we’re not putting our own needs and interests first. And how can that be detrimental? Well, in certain relationships, in work dynamics and team dynamics, if I accommodate, accommodate, accommodate, what I’m doing now is I’m building up this resentment because I accommodate so much.

David Dowling (00:12:10):

Now you expect it right. Now you expect that whatever you want, I’m going to agree to it. And, and I don’t know how to back out of that situation and say, I actually think we should do this, and I’d like to do this because I’ve lost my voice in accommodating you. And I can build resentment and anger over time. When we become such a competitors, we see it sometimes in our relationships with others, right? We have personal intimate relationships. We accommodate, accommodate, accommodate, and then we start to build this resentment. So that’s what Thomas Killman said is that competing isn’t great because it only takes care of your needs and interests and disregards the needs, needs and interests of others, and accommodating disregards your needs and interests at the expense of others. So being mindful of that approach in, in conflict situations, then what we have is we have compromising.

David Dowling (00:13:04):

And a lot of people think, well, I love compromising, right? Let’s sit down and let’s come up with some kind of a compromise, right? And so this is an intermediate, right? In both being assertive and cooperative, right? So when you’re compromising, what you’re doing is, is that you’re finding a partial agreement. I mediate. And a lot of times people say, well, mediation is not where you lose a little. And I lose a little, I win a little, and you win a little. And that’s true. It’s this middle ground. However, what that means is that you are losing a little, and I am losing a little, right? So we feel that the compromise, look, if you’re willing to sacrifice this, I’ll sacrifice this, then we can reach a compromise. But what Thomas and Kilman discovered is that is when we collaborate, we are both assertive and cooperative, collaborating an individual attempts to work with the other person to find a solution that fully satisfies both concerns, right?

David Dowling (00:13:58):

So it involves digging into an issue to identify the underlying concerns of both sides, so that we can create an alternative that meets everybody’s concerns. So rather than saying, you give up a little, and I give up a little, you sacrifice a little, I sacrifice a little. What we’re going to do is find something beautiful, and I’m gonna come back to my little chart here, sorry for jumping around and show you. You see how collaborate is all the way out there. So it’s honoring your needs and interests and honoring my needs and interests. So rather than accommodating, avoiding competing, or compromising, if we can come up with a way to collaborate, then what we do is we honor everybody to needs and interests. And we’re gonna look at some ways that we might be able to do that, right? We’re gonna explore this idea of interests and how we can uncover those interests to make those relationships more meaningful.

David Dowling (00:14:51):

I want you to think for a moment, think about your team, right? Where do certain team members fall? Do you have people who are avoiders? Do you have people who accommodate constantly and maybe they’re building some sense of resentment? Do you have somebody who’s constantly competing? What can we do to help them so that they can try a different approach? I always say to my students when I’m teaching, look, if you’re aware that you’re an accommodator, I want you in future relationships to step up and try to be more collaborative. Think about ways to honor your needs and interests. If you’re constantly the competitive person, think about how you can incorporate the needs and interests of others into the conversation. So, building on that. Alright, so we’re going to talk about what are our interests. So I just said how important this is. So interests are the real needs, concerns and motivations and values that sit underneath a person’s stated demand.

David Dowling (00:15:48):

Okay? They explain why someone wants what they say they want. Now, on the opposite end of it, think of it like this with positions, is the request: I need a 10% raise? So while interests are the reasons behind it, covering that up. So interests are the reason that I’m coming in and making this demand. So let me give you an example. I come to Laura, Laura’s my boss, and I come in and say to Laura, look, I need a raise and I’m going to need an extra $15,000 a year. That’s it. I just, I’m gonna need this raise. And so Laura, can you role play? Can you unmute for a second and role play with me for a second? Yes. Okay. So I come into Laura and Laura, things are tough this year. So Laura’s going to tell me no, right? So Laura, hey, you know what? I believe I’ve worked really hard. I work harder than most people out there. And look, things are going on and I need a raise right now. And this is it. And so, Laura, I need you to just tell me, no, it’s not happening.

Laura Thompson (00:16:45):

You know what, David? Just with the way things are this year, it’s not gonna be able to happen.

David Dowling (00:16:51):

Look, I work really hard, and you know what? I’m an important part of this team, and I need this raise.

Laura Thompson (00:16:57):

Can definitely understand where you’re coming from. We just aren’t able to swing it.

David Dowling (00:17:01):

Okay? So now when I walk out of Laura’s office, I feel angry. I feel like I’m not an important part of the team. I don’t feel like she listened to me and she understands. And she cares. Okay? So I walk out and we’ve all been there. I know every one of you have been there and had this moment, and you walk out. And one of the first things we start doing is thinking about maybe I need to find a different job. Maybe I need to go somewhere else. Okay? So we’re gonna switch. Laura, you’re gonna come in and so no, we’re gonna still go with this whole idea of you’re going to be my boss, but this time you’re gonna ask me to explain to you why. Okay? So Laura, hey, I need a raise. I work really hard and I’ve been an important part of this team, and some things are going on, and I need you to give me a raise.

Laura Thompson (00:17:45):

David, I hear you. And I’d like to understand a little bit more about what’s behind this. Can you tell me what your concerns are? What, what is the catalyst for this?

David Dowling (00:17:54):

Wow. Okay. I really appreciate you asking that. You know my kid, we’ve discovered my kid is sick and they’re going to need a lot of ongoing treatments. And just right now with the insurance that I have at work, our out-of-pocket expenses are going to spiral, and I’m going to need the raise to help offset some of this expenses. ’cause I can’t, I can’t afford, I’m, I don’t, I I’m gonna end up getting into debt. So I need a raise and I need you to help me with this and to give me this raise.

Laura Thompson (00:18:24):

Wow, that’s a really challenging situation to go through. We can’t do the raise, but we might be able to do something that gets you in a higher level of the insurance that can cover that so that that can help you out. Would that be something that would be helpful for you?

David Dowling (00:18:37):

Wow, that would be amazing. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Now, Laura and I practiced this yesterday, okay? What I want you to understand is that I came in, I was angry the first time. I said, I need a raise. She said, no, I left angrier, I left more frustrated, and I left. Like I was feeling like I’m not a part of the team. When I sit down with Laura the second time, and I said, I need a raise, Laura said to me, help me to understand what’s going on here. Why do, what is going on that you’re coming in and is there something happening with you? Help me to understand why you’re asking for this raise. In asking that question, I’m able to explain some of the things that are going on and uncover my real underlying interest, which is I’m going to need some assistance for insurance.

David Dowling (00:19:21):

Now, you know, the reasons people ask for raises are a multitude of things, right? But in asking and uncovering my underlying interests, Laura was able to figure out a way to identify those interests and then make a proposal. Hey, what if we change you on your insurance structure? So what if we take you from, you’re on our bronze level. I think if we move you up to the gold level at work, the deductibles will actually be, or the out of pockets will be reduced significantly, and you might end up saving money. Now, the cost of giving me the raise versus the cost of changing my insurance, maybe significant. So I’m asking for raise and moving me on the company insurance plan. Maybe a very small change to the company, but it makes me, I walk out now feeling heard, feeling understood, feeling like Laura gets me and understands who I am.

David Dowling (00:20:13):

So those underlying interests. Now, interests can be substantive, right? Money, time, resources, they can be processed. So a fair say in how decisions are make made. A lot of times people feel like, look, I’m angry. I’m frustrated. I’m frustrated with the way things are going because I’d like to have a seat at the table. I’d like to be a part of the decision making process. So people might come in, they might seem like they’re frustrated, they may seem like they’re causing problems. They may seem like they’re, they’re not working well with others. But what they’re trying to do is, if I really dig, dig down and, and, and ask the right questions, they might say to me, look, I’d love to have more of a say. I have actually got some great ideas here. Relationship. So it might be about respect, trust, or cooperation, right?

David Dowling (00:20:57):

So how you view me, how you treat me, and this idea of fairness, consistency, and ethics. For a lot of people, you know, the idea of fairness, that they feel like they’re being fairly treated. That is an underlying interest that drives behaviors, patterns, the way that we treat and work with each other. So I’m gonna show you, here’s a list of interest words. Now, interests are they’re always positive. They’re one word statements of needs and values. So I want you to look at this list, right? Autonomy, safety, respect, appreciation, fairness, trust, dignity, reputation, equity. When people have, when we uncover their underlying interests, people don’t want half of the interest. They want all, I want respect. I don’t want a little respect. I want all respect. I don’t want to feel like things are a little fair. I want things to be fair.

David Dowling (00:21:58):

I don’t want some trust in our relationship. I want there to be trust in the relationship. Reputation. I want my reputation to be intact. So these underlying interests are the things that drive us in the way that we communicate and work with each other. So when you, when I looked at the, you all shared some fantastic questions. And when I looked at those questions, what I wanted to do was respond to everybody and be like, it’s about asking the right questions to uncover. What is the interest that’s driving this? What’s going on here that you might have? So somebody might come in and say, I need a raise. And what’s the underlying interest of financial security? I don’t feel like in my life right now, that I’m financially secure. And that’s important to me to have that financial security ’cause that insecurity not feeling secure in my finances.

David Dowling (00:22:47):

That threatens my whole family, that threatens who we are. Sorry, I can hear it right now. My accent, I’m I, I don’t know if you know, if you joined me last year, but I’m actually from Ireland. And so there are certain words like threaten, threaten, threaten, threaten, threaten, right? So when I teach my students, they always laugh at me. But here’s the thing that threatens my sense of wellbeing, my sense of stability, right? Respect. I want to be respected in my job. I want stability. I want equity, all of these things. So when you get somebody come in, a lot of times people come in, they can be angry, they can be frustrated, they can make demands. But if you get to step back and explore what’s driving that, what is the force behind it? Then you might come up with these underlying needs and interests.

David Dowling (00:23:33):

And when you get to those, how do we deal with that? Alright, so what’s next? Now that I’ve identified those interests, David, what’s my next step? So here are some clearly defined steps that I want you to think about incorporating. Now, here’s a free tip for you, right? As I’ve already pointed out, you can use these in your personal life, right? If you have family members, if you have kids, if you have a spouse, if you have a partner, whatever, you can use this to help you. So first of all, repeat what the interest is. Okay? So if I understand you correctly, it sounds to me trust is important to you. It sounds to me like respect is important to you. Then you’re gonna ask some problem solving questions. And I’ve got some problem solving questions loaded into this presentation that I’m going to share with you some ways to ask those or frame those problem solving questions.

David Dowling (00:24:25):

What we want to do is I wanna pull in the person. So I go into Laura, sit down, and I say, Hey, you know what? I need a raise. Okay? She asks me an interest a finding question. Help me to understand. And that’s a great way to approach it. Help me to understand what’s going on here. Why is this raise important to you? What do you feel you could benefit? So that explores my interest. So when I share with her, look, this thing’s going on with my family, I feel like I I need more financial support and security and whatever else, then what Laura could do is say, listen, let’s think about this. Right? I hear you saying that this is something that you need. Invite David in. Laura would invite me in to be part of the problem solving. So, you know, you’re asking for a raise.

David Dowling (00:25:07):

What are some other things that we could possibly do here to help you? So put it back on, David, put it back on me to be a part of the problem solving to often what we do when we’re in positions of management is sit down and try to solve the problem. Bring the person in, because if they feel ownership over the solution, they will be more ready to accept it and run with it. So what you do is you repeat the interest. It sounds to me like, you know, financial security’s important to me. To you, it sounds to me like trust is important to you. It sounds to me like respect is important to you. Help me to understand, what are some things that you can think of? I’m gonna start thinking of things. What are some things that we can do to help that, right?

David Dowling (00:25:49):

So I’m not gonna sit there and say, well, you want more respect. Here’s what I suggest you do. I’m gonna say to you, what are some things that we can all do? Or what are some suggestions that you have on how we can build your feeling of respect in this relationship, in this environment? Once we’ve done that, then we’re gonna reframe it, okay? So if I understand you correctly, you’re telling me that if we do these things that will help you feel more respect around here, and that person’s gonna go, yeah, that’s gonna help me, right? That’s going to help me. So we’re gonna reframe it not from the problem that they’ve brought in, right? They come in with this anger, this attack, this frustration in how things are going. We’re gonna take it, we’re gonna bring it down to those interests, right? And I’m gonna go back to, we’re gonna bring it back to these interests.

David Dowling (00:26:41):

And it’s always a positive thing. I want you to remember that. So, if they’re telling you things and you’re looking for that interest, it can’t be a negative look for the positive. So even if they frame it I feel like you know, people that I’m working with, they’re not, they’re, they’re not honest. I feel like they’re lying to me all the time. So I’m gonna reframe it as a positive. So it sounds to me like trust is important to you. Yeah, trust is important to me. Awesome. So now we’ve got that interest. Right now we’re gonna ask some problem solving questions. And instead of saying, so it sounds to me like you feel like everybody’s lying to you and being dishonest and whatever else, we’re gonna reframe it. So trust is important to you. And if we do these things that can help you build more trust in your relationships with your colleagues and your coworkers, does that sound, and we’re gonna frame it in a question, put it to them.

David Dowling (00:27:31):

Does that sound right? Does, are these some things that we can do to help you? And you want that acknowledgement? Yes. That’s what I think can help, right? So that’s gonna help us move forward in the relationship. Now, several of you asked about how to deal with people in the workplace when you have certain situations. This is a book called The Power of a Positive. No, it’s from some folks at Harvard. The program on negotiation at Harvard. They have some great books. They’re really easy to read. If you’ve not re-read it. Getting to yes is a really fun one. And you can actually, if you want, you can download it onto your phone and you can listen to it on Audible. And the power of a positive no is another really good one that you can go through and listen to just even in your car when you’re driving back and forth.

David Dowling (00:28:19):

I think they’re like 99 pages long. So they’re really easy. But the, the power of a positive no, in that they talk about the Yes sandwich. So this is, as it says here, this is literally a script for working with people. It’s surrounding a no with a yes. Alright? So let’s think about this surrounding a no with a yes. So we start with the yes, what is something that we recognize that this person’s bringing to me that we can agree on? So what is the yes that we can do here? So yes, I hear you, that, that that the workplace is challenging right now. And there are a lot of like groups that are splintering off and people are, are gossiping. And so what’s the no, right? So somebody might come along and say to me Laura, gimme an example of something that might be a request or a demand that, you know, I’m, I, I’m just gonna have to say no to,

Laura Thompson (00:29:14):

Actually, there was a question that came in the chat earlier. What happens if like, the staff doesn’t get along with each other? So what if one of your staff members comes and says, I can’t work with this person. How would then you handle that with a yes sandwich?

David Dowling (00:29:25):

Yeah. So somebody comes along and says, I can’t work with this person. I need you to move to me to a different department, right? I need you to move me to another department. I need you to find me in my own special job, or whatever else, right? Yeah, I hear what you’re saying. I’ve seen this and I recognize and I understand that there are fractions going on and that I understand. And let’s think about this, right? Because what you’re saying is that you feel like you don’t belong. That belonging is important to you, and you’re not feeling that, that that’s happening right there. And I see it, and I hear you, and I appreciate that you brought that to my attention. We’re not going to move you to another department. That’s not something we’re gonna be able to do. However, what I would like to do is we’re going to find ways to increase your role and your visibility in the team, right?

David Dowling (00:30:12):

To give you more of a sense of belonging with the team and with the other members, so that you feel that you are a part of that team and you recognize ways to build them up. So I’ve got my yes, we recognize, we understand this is happening. No, I’m not moving you to another team. And yes, what we’re going to do is I’m going to do something positive. I’m gonna do something helpful to raise your profile, to give you more of a voice in the team, right? So no, I’m not gonna create a special job or move you to another department. So there are ways in which we, and we have to be very clear, right? So with the yes, the no and the yes with the no, we have to be very, very clear and very calm. And you cannot, the reason I’m saying be very clear is you can’t say, well, maybe, possibly like, let me think about it.

David Dowling (00:31:00):

Once you say, think about it, then I think there’s a yes still out there. And what you have to do is say, this is not happening. So start with the yes. And, and, and this is a good way to even do feedback, right? Because I know one of the things that comes up is how do we give feedback, right? So for example Tyler’s on here. So Tyler, I’m gonna pick on you, okay for a second. So Tyler did some work with my PowerPoint, right? And so Tyler, I’m gonna give Tyler some feedback. I’m gonna like, Tyler, look, the work that you did was fantastic. I really love how you did the adjustments to the PowerPoints. What I’m gonna ask you to do is you might consider that the next time that you do it. One thing I love is I love animation so that my slides appear and flow in a different way.

David Dowling (00:31:47):

And that’s one thing I’m gonna ask you to do moving forward. However, like when I look at the overall deck, it was just a beautiful job. I love the graphics that you put in there. So what I did was I started out with a positive, great job. Then I said to him, I’m gonna ask you to consider changing this, doing this. So I’m giving him some feedback, and then I’m sandwiching it at the end. So positive, negative, positive, and that’s the yes no, yes sandwich. So we want you to think about how you can incorporate that into working with folks because it’s easier for somebody, for example, with Tyler. And by the way, Tyler, great job. It’s easier for somebody when they’re receiving feedback. Sometimes what we do is we give feedback and it’s like we start with the negative, look I’m not happy with the way you’ve done this, and I think you need to change this.

David Dowling (00:32:31):

And now I’m gonna build into the positive. Yay. I’m still hanging onto the negative. I can only hear the negative. That’s all. Or if I start with the positive and I say, really great job, Tyler, look, here’s the problems that I found and I end on the negative. Now I’m only focusing on the negative, the yes no, yes. Sandwich allows us to feel supported and on each end, but also when I’m giving feedback, what I like to say to people is, I would like you to consider, right? Think about how this might help. Consider changing this, consider adding this. Consider, I want you to think about how that might help you. So that’s our yes no yes, sandwich. And if you get the chance that’s a fantastic book. Okay. So questions that keep the dialogue on track. So these are some questions that I want you to consider how to approach your conversations.

David Dowling (00:33:21):

So what I always say is, you need to start with an open-ended question, right? So open-ended questions, as it says here, encourages the other party to share more information, right? Don’t get into the yes no. Did this happen? Yes. Were you there? No. How do you feel about this? Yes, no. What you want to do is say to them, help me to understand what’s going on. So a lot of you said, I, I’m trying to figure out how to motivate people. I’m trying to figure out how to, I’ve got absenteeism, whatever it might be. So what I want you to do is when you’re having that conversation, sit down and say, look, I’ve noticed that there’s been, you know, quite a an issue here with absenteeism. Why don’t you help me to understand what’s, what’s going on with you? And let the person share, let them open up.

David Dowling (00:34:03):

Because once they share, the more information you have, information is power information can shape and change a conversation. So when I go in with yes, no yes questions, I’m looking for very specific answers. I’m looking to trap you plus yes, no questions really make me feel like I’m attacked and I’m on the defensive. So either I give you a yes or a no. Are you having problems with the absenteeism or, or being late? Yes. Now I feel like I’m being attacked and judged. So what I wanna do is ask open-ended questions. So I do a lot of work with special education. I do a lot of work with teachers and administrators. And, and I’ll give you an example of question. So if I say to a student, did you do your homework? The response can be yes or no. Immediately they’re on the defensive.

David Dowling (00:34:54):

‘Cause If they didn’t do their homework, they feel like they’re gonna be attacked. They feel like they’re gonna be punished, whatever it might be. So, did you do your homework? Yes. No. The alternative is maybe saying to the student how was your experience with your homework this week? That invites them to kind of say, it was tough. I wasn’t able to. And now they feel like I care and I wanna listen. Now they feel like I’m engaged, right? So asking an open-ended question that invites them in, right? So having your questions, being non-judgmental, it avoids that placing blame or making assumptions with it, right? Making people feel attacked or defensive in how we ask our questions. I want you to think before you even start the meeting, what questions and am I, am I gonna ask them? And are these questions going to make this person feel attacked or defensive?

David Dowling (00:35:43):

Because once that person feels attacked and defensive, what are they gonna do? They’re not even listening to me anymore. They’re formulating the responses and their answers. They’re getting ready to kind of go, but this and this and this and this and this, right? So we want to take that away, take that hot air out of the room, cool, the temperature of the environment so that they can feel that they can talk. My favorite judgmental question is, so is that your third donut for breakfast? Yes it is. Instead of just saying, how was your breakfast this morning? Well, it was pretty good. I just had three donuts, I probably shouldn’t, right? We tend to ask questions that are very loaded and judgmental. The question should be neutral and not imply any bias or favoritism towards one side or another. So are we working with our teams and asking questions that makes it seem like we already favor one side over the other, that we already see one’s perspective as neutral?

David Dowling (00:36:38):

When I’m working with people in conflict, I’ll listen to one person and then I go to the other person and I act like I’ve never heard the story before. What we tend to do is go listen to one source person, come over here and say, so I’ve heard this is what’s happened. Now I’m taking the one person, person A story to person B and I’m making it. That’s the fact, that’s the truth of what happened here. They already now feel like they need to defend themselves. What I do is I listen to person A, thank you so much, restate it. Here’s what I heard you saying. Then I go over to person B and say, why don’t you tell me? And they’re probably say, well, what did they tell you? Why don’t you tell me your perspective of what’s going on here? So I listen to it as a neutral, and I let them share.

David Dowling (00:37:16):

I don’t have any bias. I’m not coming in, so you should be specific. So once I’ve heard the story, then I’m going to ask clarifying questions. Clarifying questions are a great, great way for us to get on the same page, to understand each other and to learn from each other. Clarifying questions allow us, because I have my own idea of certain things or the way things are gonna happen. This happens to all of us. You know, people, they come to their own conclusions instead of checking in with me about what’s going on. So from a, a legal sense, when I’m working with people, I say a great clarifying question is, somebody might say, the car was driving really fast before it turned the corner and, and hit the other car. But a lot of clarifying questions I could ask color of the car, did you see the driver?

David Dowling (00:38:01):

But the most important clarifying questions, how fast was the car going? Because if I ask my teenager, they might say, oh, it was going really fast, like 90 miles an hour. To me, that’s reckless, right? So their idea of fast to me is reckless. Whereas if I ask you know my mother-in-law who’s in her eighties, she might say, oh, it was going like 30 miles an hour. It seemed like it was really fast. So before I come to my own conclusion of what fast is, I’m gonna clarify and ask them to help me understand what they mean by that. And then reflective listening is a way to summarize what the person has said and then confirm and check in. So if I understand you correctly, these are the things that are frustrating you or bothering you, is there anything else that you think I should know?

David Dowling (00:38:44):

So I’m gonna reflect back, is there anything I missed? Is there anything else that you think I should understand or know at this point so that we can all be on the same page? So I said I would share with you some questions. Here are some great questions to ask, right? So open-ended questions. What do you mean? What has that been like? Can you say more about X, Y, or Z? Now, I love it when we start with, I’m curious, would you tell me more or help me to understand, these are great ways of inviting somebody in. So it seems like this is an issue for you. Help me to understand more about what’s going on. Or I’m curious, would you tell me more about this? And what that does is it invites the person to communicate with you. And remember, when we’re asking these questions, our tone and our body language all make a difference.

David Dowling (00:39:35):

So if Laura comes to me and I’m sitting there with my arms folded and I’m like, you know, so why don’t you tell me what’s going on? Why don’t you tell me what’s going on? Help me to understand, right? My tone, my body language signals to you. I’ve already decided, I already know. So why don’t you tell me whatever ridiculous answer you’ve got for me? And the person across the table doesn’t feel like they want to communicate with me, they don’t wanna share. So using my tone and with tone and register, I say get relaxed. If you want somebody to open up to you, slow down, get warmer in your tone and register. Have positive body language. Don’t be too leaned in, but don’t sit back. Oops, my chair just dropped, right? So be be present in the moment and we’re gonna talk about what it means to be a good listener in a second.

David Dowling (00:40:31):

So questions to identify interests. What’s most important to you? What about that is important to you? So somebody comes in and says, I would like to move to another team I’m fed up with whatever. Help me to understand what about that’s important to you? Or what does that look like to you? What is needed in this situation to make you feel whole? Or can you separate your wants from your needs? So help me to understand, these are the things that you say you want, but what’s, what’s driving that? What are your real needs and interests here? So these are some great questions that we can engage in, that we can invite somebody to share their underlying needs and interests. But I want you to, if you can, I, I think we’re gonna get you a copy of the powerpoint. Laura do we get everybody a copy that you’re gonna get a copy of the PowerPoint with these questions on there.

David Dowling (00:41:18):

But these are just some great questions to think about how to frame your questions, how to engage with somebody in a meaningful way so that they can be a part of the conversation. Alright? We’re gonna talk about being a good listener and the attributes and skills of a good listener. So I’m gonna go through this and I want you to think about your skills as a listener. So good listeners, stop talking and give them selves a chance to hear what others are saying. One of the issues that we have is that when we are engaged in these dialogues and conversations with people, we don’t shut up.

David Dowling (00:41:53):

I always say when you ask questions, right? So I’ve given you all these questions. This is how we typically ask questions. So why don’t you tell me what’s going on? Because here’s what I see happening and I’m trying to figure it out. Now I’ve asked the question, I’ve answered the question, I’m asking another question, and then I’m asking another question. So I’m asking four questions and I’m also telling you what I think is going on and answering the question myself. So sometimes what we need to do is ask a question. Why don’t you help me to understand what’s going on? And then just shut up.

David Dowling (00:42:27):

Silence is so uncomfortable. I teach, I teach law students, right? I teach at a university and I’ll stand in front of my class and I’ll ask a question, and then I just stand there and I look at them and I smile. And these kids get so uncomfortable with the silence, and then suddenly hands go up. But after the first few seconds, they’re waiting for me to start responding. They’re waiting for me to fill in that gap. They’re waiting for me to fill in the silence. Sometimes. If you want to know what’s really going on, you have to be willing to stop talking to let other people feel that discomfort and share. And you’ll be surprised. Good listeners, listen with their ears, their eyes, and their bodies. So when you’re talking to somebody and you’re listening to them, what I don’t wanna have happen is that as you’re asking them questions, you’ve got a pen and paper in front, and your face is down and you’re checking on things and whatever else, because what they’re getting is the top of your head.

David Dowling (00:43:25):

And what you’re getting is you’re missing out on most of the key elements of the conversation. Very little of what we communicate is in the words that we say, it’s how we say it. It’s our body language, it’s our tone of voice, it’s our register, it’s the peace of our voice. All of those things share so much about how we’re feeling and what’s going on. Good listeners put aside their own views and opinions for the time being. This is the hardest thing, right? Is to put aside your own views and opinions, because we all have opinions on things. The world is so divided, we are so split on everything, right? Everything that when somebody starts sharing something, we wanna jump in and go, no, that’s not the way. Don’t cut somebody off. If you’re there to be a good listener, just listen to them. Now, good listeners control their impatience because they know that people listen faster than they can talk. So I’m gonna share two things here. One, some people that you work with may be working with you and communicating with you in a second or even third language.

David Dowling (00:44:32):

You know, I struggle with English, right? I’m from Ireland. I, you’ve already heard me say like, I dropped my ths 33 and a third and things like that, right? I can barely communicate in English, and I have so much respect for people who are doing this in a second or third language. It’s impressive. But what’s not respectful is when somebody else is speaking and they pause for a second and I jump in to finish their sentence because I think I know where they’re going with this. When people finish our sentences and cut us off, we don’t wanna finish. We don’t want to communicate because they already have told us they know everything. They understand everything. So be mindful and allow people to finish their sentences. The other thing I’ll share with you is I was at a networking thing a few years ago and there were these guys standing around and they were chatting, and I, you know, said, oh, where are you guys from?

David Dowling (00:45:20):

And whatever else. And one of them answered, and the other one started to answer and pause. And I was all like, oh, did you forget where I, in my head, I was like, I need to say, did you forget where he came from? All be all like humorous and funny and whatever else. And as I stood there, this young man started to form the words in his mouth and slowly get them out. And I realized that he had a stutter. He had a speech impediment. And in that moment, I, I realized had I done what I wanted to do, which was to mock the pause, I would’ve made him feel so terrible. And I would’ve walked away from the conversation feeling terrible. So allow people to finish their sentences. A good listener’s purpose is the opposite of a debater. I’m not there to debate you if I’ve brought you in to have a meaningful conversation.

David Dowling (00:46:01):

I need to listen to what you have to say and not debate. So if you come in and say, I’m having issues with these, I’m not there to say, no, you’re not. Good listeners train themselves to hear what is not said as much as what is said. And that’s reading that body language, the tension, the emotions that people share. Good listeners focus on a person’s feelings, thoughts, and behavior. And then good listeners pay attention to those verbal and nonverbal cues. So read what’s happening in the room. And then finally, good listeners, resist distractions. And what is the biggest distraction in our communication with people right now? These things, right? This. So if I wanna have a meaningful conversation with you, I can’t do so if this is in my hand, if I am looking and checking for text messages, if I’m standing there and as you’re talking to me, I’m focused down here on my phone or, you know, my favorite thing is, is when somebody puts their finger up or the hand up to say like, there’s a text coming through and I need to, so you want to have a meaningful conversation with me, and now you’re stopping me so that you can check something on your phone.

David Dowling (00:47:03):

If you want me to feel respected and a part of the conversation, you take this, you put it on silent, and then you put it away so that you and I can sit and have a conversation, a meaningful conversation, a conversation that allows me to feel heard and understood in this moment. Now, here’s your homework assignment for the week, right? I said I teach. So all of you’re thinking, this guy’s really gonna give us homework. There should be about nine things on this list right in front of you. And what I’d like you to do is you’ll get a copy of the PowerPoint, or you can take a photograph of it right now. But I would like you to try to incorporate as many of the attributes of a good listener into one conversation one, one conversation in the next week. I would like you to look for.

David Dowling (00:47:47):

Now, let me give you a tip. I don’t want you to go to Costco this week. Go in and as you’re checking out and the person at Costco or Trader Joe’s like, Hey, how’s your week been? And you’re gonna go, I’m gonna be a good listener right now. That’s not the moment to incorporate the skills and attributes of a good listener. What I want you to do is to find a meaningful conversation. It’s a gift. I want you to sit with somebody. I want you to remove the distractions. I want you to focus on that person. I want you to think about your body language, your eye contact. I want you to think about how you can engage with that person. It is a gift that you will give them the opportunity for them to be able to feel listened and heard in the conversation. Try it once. It’s difficult. It’s not the easiest thing. We think we’re good listeners, but I’d like you to try that for me. Okay? Just the once this week. And I think that is, we’re gonna have some questions. So I’m gonna stop the PowerPoint and bring it back so that Laura can ask some of the questions. And I see that the chat has been busy,

Laura Thompson (00:48:44):

It’s been popping. Yes. And I do wanna share a couple of of comments as if you have questions, please submit them and we’ll get get to the ones we have time for. But I did love a couple of the, the comments and questions that I wanted to highlight. Sure. one said, I would love to see a car dealership negotiation show down as you were talking about that earlier. I know I would too.

David Dowling (00:49:02):

I love it. I can, I tell I did a really bad thing a couple of years ago, right? I went to a car dealership and I walked on and I had a car that I was looking to buy, but I called another dealership. So I went in and as I’m standing there, I call another dealership and I’m like, so how much is this car? Da da da. And as they’re telling me, I’m telling the dealer on the other phone, on the phone and having them negotiate with each other. That was fun. I’m mean,

Laura Thompson (00:49:28):

That’s awesome. I’ve heard that’s a great way to do it. I also loved no need to apologize about the accent. Let your beautiful accent fly free. Oh, thank you. And I love this one, Texas, here. I sound like a busted can of biscuits. So there’s been a lot of like entertaining comments in the chat. <Laugh>,

David Dowling (00:49:43):

Can I just tell you, so as an Irish person, I love Southern accents, I love American accents. So like the, the Midwestern accent, I used to work with people. I worked with this one lady and she was like, can you go get me a bag. And I was like, a bag? She’s like, yeah, a bag to put the books in. And I was like, oh, you mean a bag? I was like A bag. I love it. Like love southern accents. Beautiful.

Laura Thompson (00:50:04):

So here’s one I liked, and I know this was similar to a lot of the questions that came through, but how do you handle when a staff member doesn’t comply or adjust to the responsibilities they have? Or if their duties change, what if they don’t respond to that positively and it creates tension amongst the staff? How would you build the conversation to address that situation with that individual without it coming across as an attack?

David Dowling (00:50:26):

Yeah, so what you gotta do is you gotta sit them down and, and kind of have a check-in meeting. So instead of it being a, like, you’re not doing the things that you need to be doing, let’s sit and have a conversation. I’d like to check in with you. Where do you feel, you know, some of your responsibilities have changed, so help me to understand what of those responsibilities do you feel are working well and do you see any challenges in some of the new responsibilities that you’ve been given? I’d love to hear how it’s going for you. So let that person share and their perspective of what’s going on might be different from the teams, right? So just because the team’s like we don’t feel things are going well, that person might be like, well, I think I’m doing well at this, this, and this.

David Dowling (00:51:05):

And that might be then that moment that we do almost that yes, no, yes. Sandwich of positive feedback, positive, right? So we say, okay, I can see this. And I love that your enthusiasm. I love that you feel you’re engaged. Have you considered how the staff might be feeling about this? Right? So have you considered, have you talked with your team about what’s going on here? Because I think they really wanna support you and encourage you in the job that you’re doing. So engaging them in a meaningful conversation rather than a let’s, let’s do an assessment and an evaluation. I’d love you to do an assessment and an evaluation. How do you feel you’re doing? So invite them to give you that feedback so then you can hear it from their perspective. Because their perspective might be like, I think I’m doing everything great, right? Some people just get lost in what they’re supposed to be doing, and maybe they just need a little clarification.

Laura Thompson (00:51:57):

Very fascinating approach. I love it. Here’s another question that I think is really good, and we’ve also seen a lot of questions similar to this. I would love advice on how to address the department as a whole to move past the quote. We’ve always done it this way, mentality.

David Dowling (00:52:12):

So this idea that this is our culture and you want us to change the culture, you want us to do something new, right? And so as a department, like what we wanna do is sit down and kind of say, right, let’s think about the way that we’ve done things and what did you like about the way that we’ve done things? What do you think are some of the concerns or challenges that we might have about changing this, right? So the, the change in this, share with me what are some of your concerns? Because people might have very valid points and even if they’re valid points, but we know we need to do something very different. What we have to do is recognize that’s valid. And I appreciate that and I hear that and I see that too. We’re being asked to do something a little different, and I know that’s a shift in the culture and the tradition of how we’ve done things.

David Dowling (00:52:57):

Let’s explore together why we might need to change, right? Why we might need, what’s, what’s the end goal here? What are we trying to accomplish as a team by being asked to do these new things? So engaging them in a more meaningful conversation rather than this is what we’ve been told to do, deal with it. It’s sit down and explore what did we like about what we, the way that, that we’ve done things, and what concerns do we have about the new way that we’re being asked to do things and how can we align this and make them problem solvers, make them part of the solution? Alright, so we’ve been asked, this isn’t me. I’m not coming in and saying these are the things to do. So how can we as a team work together to accomplish this new mandate? Whatever it might be.

Laura Thompson (00:53:40):

I love that and I agree with some others in the chat. Brianna, that was a great question. So thank you for, for sending that one over. Here’s another one that I liked that came through. What’s the best way to help new or younger employees fit into longstanding teams?

David Dowling (00:53:54):

Yeah. Right. So you get somebody that comes in, they feel like they’re an outsider, you’ve got this team that just works really well together. And so there are a couple of things that you can do There is you can identify certain people in the team and say to them, Hey, you know what? David’s new in this team and what I’d love to do is I’d love to give you an opportunity to step up and guide David and help David, right? So people, if they feel like you gave them a certain assignment, they take pride in that, right? So my responsibility is to find ways to help David feel more an impact and more part of the team, right? So I’m gonna look for those opportunities to pull David in because we don’t think about it, right? When we’ve got a really good team that works well together, right?

David Dowling (00:54:40):

We’re all doing our thing. We don’t even notice that David’s standing off to the side not feeling a part of that team. So tap certain people and say, and build them up. Laura, you are, you know, you have such a natural gift for including others and you’ve such a great gift for making people feel like they’re part of the team. David’s really new and I was wondering if you would work with me to help David feel more included. What are some things that you think that we could do with David to help build him into the team? And what are some things that you think that I can do to support you in that role?

Laura Thompson (00:55:17):

Gosh, I love that. That’s fantastic. Here’s a, another couple of questions that address the similar concepts. I’m gonna read both questions and then you can tackle it from there. But one of the questions is, what are some of the best ways to address tardiness when it is impacting team morale? And the other question along those lines is, how can leaders balance empathy with accountability when chronic absenteeism or low effort keeps recurring?

David Dowling (00:55:42):

Yeah, so empathy with accountability, right? Because we want to to be mindful of people’s challenging situations, but one of the things you gotta understand is that there is a need to be accountable, right? Tardiness and absenteeism and things like that, they impact you know, bottom line, you know, because people are turning up late, not being a part of the team, not working and everything else. So there has to be a sincere conversation, right? We have to be empathetic to a point, and then what we have to do is say, how can we work on this? What are some things, are there things that you, that are going on with you? So we wanna be here for you, we want to be be supportive of you, but at the same time, we have to be mindful of the fact that we all have a job to do.

David Dowling (00:56:25):

So are there things that we, that we need to be mindful of? Now, is it temporary? Is it long term? Are there issues in your life that you’re, you’ve suddenly become aware of? And is there some change that we need to make to support you in that? So being mindful, because before we go to the point of saying, look, maybe this isn’t the right fit view. This isn’t the right job for you. What we want to do is be mindful of how can we support you? How can we demonstrate and also essentially record that we’ve stepped in and tried to take steps to, to support you in whatever the thing is. I have students all the time and they’re like, you know, I got sick or, you know, a family emergency came up and whatever else. And I’m like, look, today we can’t turn around and say to somebody, don’t care.

David Dowling (00:57:08):

Turn up to work. Right? That doesn’t work anymore. We have to be supportive. But at the same time, what we have to do is help people understand that there are consequences sometimes for our actions. So, you know, where we want to have a conversation around absenteeism and be enforcers, we need to balance that, but we, at the end of the day, there’s a job that needs to be done and people need to understand that they have a responsibility to be where they need to be. So supportive, encouraging, but at the end of the day, you have to be very clear. You can’t be like, oh, we get it, we get it, we get it. You’re fired. You have to be like, okay, we get it, but be mindful. Here are the rules and regulations. Alright, we care about you. But you have to understand that, you know, there are parameters. People, if you are absent so much, then that’s gonna create conflict and issues. So being clear from the beginning, set out the expectations while you’re being supportive.

Laura Thompson (00:58:06):

That’s great. And I love, Kelsey had a comment too, is a great group conversation would also remind the staff what our main purpose at work is. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. That our goal is to provide and prepare, prepare nutritious meals for our students. And that goal requires change on the go.

David Dowling (00:58:20):

Yeah. And, and that’s the thing is we are living in a changing world, right? So many of us are getting impacted by so many different things that are happening and you have to remind them, I am, I might be the person leading the discussion, but I’m also having to adapt and change. It’s not like I’m sitting in my office and my world hasn’t been impacted by all of these things. We all are taking on the responsibility. We as a team, right? Are being impacted by the changes and what we have to do.

Laura Thompson (00:58:47):

Awesome. We’ve got time for probably one or two more questions, but I just wanted to throw in a couple items here just on kind of the housekeeping side is we have a webinar again in January with Maureen Pisanick on Photo Fitness. So Tyler dropped that link in the chat, so if you’d like to register for that, we’re really excited about it. And I know Maureen is on the chat on the webinar now, so hey Maureen. And then also if you want professional development certificate for this, Tyler also drop that link in the chat as well. So for the last question for now, and we got this one coming through quite a bit as well, is how can you rebuild trust and cooperation when your team is divided into cliques or cultural groups that don’t work together or there are different language barriers going on?

David Dowling (00:59:28):

Yeah, so this is something that’s quite common, right? Is people feel like we, we form these cliques around culture, language, whatever else. And I think there are a couple of things that you can do. One is taking time to have people share and educate each other, right? So maybe having some moments where people can come in and say, this is a little about me and about my culture. This is a little bit about who I am. So that people can learn from each, it’s like spotlight moments that we can do to educate somebody. So it’s not just simply a photo on the wall, this or on on a newsletter, but inviting team members to say, we’d love you to educate some people about who you are or what are important parts of your culture so that people can see and identify. Because we tend to break into these clicks without realizing how much more we have in common.

David Dowling (01:00:15):

And when we talk about those underlying interests. So if you have a situation with a couple of different groups having a moment where like sit down and say what’s important? What, what, what are your values? What are things that are important to you? Family is important to me, right? You know, community’s important to me. Well that’s important to me too. That’s important to me too. Wow. Look at this. We all share these common things, right? Even something as simple as kind of a potluck where you invite people to bring in foods from their culture so that other people can be like, that was amazing. And that builds and opens the lines of communication just in a really fun and interesting way for us.

Laura Thompson (01:00:58):

David, this has been absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your expertise. There have been so many questions. I wanna get to all of them, but we are out of time.

David Dowling (01:01:06):

Yeah, sorry.

Laura Thompson (01:01:07):

But thank you everybody for bringing your, your questions and your, your comments and we hope we’re able to tackle a lot of what you had on your mind. I know a lot of the questions that we did tackle a lot of people responded with. That’s a great question. And I, I know that there are a lot of these questions that so many of you are wrestling with. So I’m thrilled that you were able to make it today and hopefully got some great help with all of David’s insights and experiences and really interesting ways of approaching hard conversations. So thank you so much, David, for your time. We really appreciate it. And thank you everyone so much for coming.

David Dowling (01:01:36):

Yeah, I will say this. There’s so much I could, like with one hour, I could only do so much, but you know, thank you so much for all of your insight and your support through the session. It’s been great being here with you this morning. Thank you.

Laura Thompson (01:01:48): Thank you everyone.