Full Webinar Transcript

Laura Thompson (00:00:05): <Silence> Hello everyone and welcome to our webinar today. We are thrilled that you are joining us for this webinar with School Food Rocks on cracking the code on new sodium and sugar regulations. We are featuring today Joe Urban and Lauren Couchois of School Food Rocks, and we are thrilled that they are here to tackle this topic. We’ve seen a lot of anxiety and apprehension around this topic, and we think they’re the perfect folks to talk to this topic with their calm and their confidence. Just as far as a few housekeeping items, this webinar will be recorded. So if you have to leave at some point, just know that this will be recorded and you will be getting a link to this recording tomorrow. The transcript will be available as well, and both the transcript and the recording will be available to all registrants.

Laura Thompson (00:00:51): If you have any questions for our presenters today, please go ahead and put them in the Q&A section at the bottom on your Zoom webinar here and we will tackle them. We’ve gotten a lot of questions as those of you have registered for this webinar, and so we’ve been incorporating that into the content and we’ll be answering those at the end during the Q&A as well. Also, one other item of housekeeping is at the end of this webinar there will also be a survey that you can provide any feedback or anything that you would like to add as far as webinars or topics that you would like us to cover in the future. So feel free to give us some feedback there as well. As far as introducing our speakers today. Joe Urban is the CEO and founder of School Food Rocks and has decades of experience in the restaurant and K 12 food service industries, and he is super passionate about providing quality training to school districts around the nation.

Laura Thompson (00:01:44): And we’ve been watching this from afar for many, many years. And so now working with him more closely and seeing that passion has been really, really rewarding for us and has been fun for us to watch. Lauren Couchois is the director of K-12 programs at School Food Rocks and has 14 years in school nutrition. She’s a Registered Dietitian, as well as a School Nutrition Specialist and is also passionate about providing quality meals to students across the nation. And her focus is on local procurement and farm to school. And we did a webinar on Farm to School with Lauren about a year and a half ago. So if you’re interested in that, feel free to go back and check that out. But it was a fantastic webinar on the topic of Farm to School. Again, if you have any questions, feel free to put them in at the Q&A box at the bottom and we will tackle them at the end. Or if there’s anything specific you want to ask Joe or Lauren, there are their email addresses right there on the slide. So without any further ado, Lauren and Joe, take it away.

Lauren Couchois (00:02:42): Thank you Laura, and welcome everybody. Good afternoon. We are thrilled to be here with you guys today and very honored that you chose to join this webinar so we can talk about all the fun things of sugar and sodium. Today, just some objectives so we understand what we’re gonna go over today. We’re going to talk about current and future USDA sugar and sodium regulations, so we’ll compare them. We’ll talk about some strategies to help you guys tackle those issues you might be having with the current standards and the incoming standards, and then also explore some best practices and some ways that we have tackled this problem as well.

Lauren Couchois (00:03:20): So why this matters, why is there even the move to reduce the amount of sugar and sodium in the meals that we’re providing to our children? Well, all of this is to be in alignment with Healthy Hunger-Free Kids Act in the dietary guidelines for Americans. We all know that there is a rising childhood obesity, diabetes, hypertension wave happening to our youth and one of the best ways in which we can help tackle that problem is to make sure that we’re providing food to them, that is to the benefit of their health. I don’t know if everybody is aware, but school meals are serving over 21 million meals daily, and that is just through the NSLP program alone. That’s not including all the other food programs out there. So that is massive. We are one of the most reaching to our students organizations out there that is providing health to them.

Lauren Couchois (00:04:14): So we’re gonna start with our sodium. Right now we are in Target one and we have been, and that is not changing until July 1st, 2027. So those are the current Target one sodium regulations that we have per grade level. And that is not changing again until July 1st, 2027. Once that change comes into effect, it’s gonna be about a 10% reduction in sodium. It is a reduction by milligram, not percentage, but the overall percentage is about 10%. So I just want everybody to be aware that when we talk about the reduction, it will be in milligrams, but it is not taking effect until July 1st, 2027. So Target one, what we’re dealing with now, those are our weekly ranges. This is for breakfast, as you can see there by the grade level the current sodium regulations that we have and the ones that will be coming.

Lauren Couchois (00:05:11): And you can see the reduction there. That will be coming in July of 2027. From my perspective, what I see this, like our biggest challenges are gonna be, are some of our staples that we’re serving at breakfast. So like our breakfast breads, breakfast meats, and of course milk. Milk is, has a high participation rate at the breakfast program. So those three, there are kind of what I’m seeing for the most likely to be challenges for meeting our sodium regulations. Not so much now, we’ve all been doing it. But for what’s coming, I think those are ones we’re really gonna need to keep our eye on so that we can be proactive once that time comes. Now, sodium standards for lunch also, again, this is a weekly average and I kind of wanna reiterate that fact. Some people get hung up on what do I need to do per item per day.

Lauren Couchois (00:05:57): There is no regulation for that. It is what is the weekly average of your sodium by the end of the week, not by item, not by day. So on our chart there we can see the weekly averages that we have to meet per grade level, where we are at and what is coming. Again, these challenges, I think it’s gonna be pretty similar. We’ve got breads, cheeses, sauces, and processed items. For me, one of the biggest things I think of would be if anybody is doing like a substation or if you serve deli sandwiches every day, that’s gonna get real tough as we go towards this reduction in sodium. Our bread has sodium in it, the deli meat, the cheese, not to mention if they’re putting condiments on it, and that’s just the entree, not including once they take a fruit or a vegetable and potentially a milk to go with it.

Lauren Couchois (00:06:47): In the chat, I would love to know if you guys have anything specific that you are worried about too if you have challenges right now. The other thing that I know, I do a lot of nutritional analysis for certain districts. My biggest challenge comes at high school because I’m trying to meet that caloric range while staying under a sodium range. So as we raise our calories for any given grade level, usually that’s adding in items, but we can’t have sodium go over a certain range too. I find that to already be a challenge, especially at the higher grade level. So these are things where we’re going to have opportunities to make some improvements and be innovative in the way we tackle this as we head towards that sodium reduction in July of 2027.

Laura Thompson (00:07:34): Just a quick note from the chat of someone that’s mentioning something that’s been challenging for them is that the sugar limit combined with the sodium limit for breakfast items.

Lauren Couchois (00:07:43):So that’s interesting. We’ll talk about sugar in this webinar too. So the sugar ranges for breakfast aren’t really so much of a range right now. The weekly ranges are coming later, sugar for breakfast, right now we’re focused on items. And right now the only items with a restriction on sugar is milk, yogurt and cereal. So if you have kind of a combo mix there, then maybe look at rearranging from week to week. We will be talking about menu engineering too. Sometimes people think of menu engineering as it relates to the cost of items and to the plate cost by the end of the week. I’m a Dietitian, so I kind of think in milligrams and things like that. But you can also apply menu engineering into your nutritional analysis for the week as well.

Joe Urban (00:08:32): Somebody’s commented in the chat there that hopefully manufacturers are gonna be prepared and help out with this. And I can definitely speak confidently. We work with over 20 manufacturers in the K-12 space. And this has been a topic on the top of their list for quite a while now. Year and a half ago we started advising them on what was coming down the pipe and how they needed to be prepared. And you know, one thing we hear a lot is, you know, we’re we’re nervous about the sugar and sodium regulation changes that are coming and what we tell everybody, both the manufacturers and and districts is that it’s gonna be okay, we’ve done this for a long time and those of us that have been in this industry for a long time know that one thing is for certain change is gonna happen.

Joe Urban (00:09:21): We’re gonna get there, we’re gonna get through it. The manufacturers are going to figure out a way to reformulate the products that they want to keep into the program and help get them compliant. So manufacturers are all over this right now. They’re all over a lot of things right now. The current bill that just passed in California, they’re on that too. So just be confident in knowing that you’re gonna get through this and that the manufacturers are there with you. Because, you know, it’s their lifeblood to sell food to the schools, so they’re gonna do everything they can to help you be compliant.

Lauren Couchois (00:09:53): Absolutely. I saw some people in the chat there too, Valerie. Yes, sandwiches, sandwiches are an issue. And as Joe mentioned, as manufacturers change their formulations and things, hopefully that will help us because again, like a chicken sandwich is kind of a staple, right? Kids love that. I know I spoke to scratch and how that would give you or I’m going to speak to scratch cooking and how that’s a good way to control it. But some of those items that we’re already getting in that kids love, it’s going to require the manufacturers to reformulate so that we can be in compliance. And like Joe said, they’re gonna do it. We are their business, they have to do it. They’re not gonna wanna lose us as customers, so that’s gonna be coming. With that said though, some of our key challenges is gonna be related to that.

Lauren Couchois (00:10:39): I hope. I don’t even know if manufacturers are on today, but as you guys have brokers and manufacturers visit you as we go to state shows, the national show, if you go to LAC, these are also great topics to be having with your manufacturers and vendors because maybe they’re not fully aware how this is gonna impact you. Because sometimes the language of I need to know how much sodium per item isn’t really a great way of looking at it when we’re looking at a weekly range. So manufacturers can get it in their head. Well, if I’m under 200 milligrams of sodium, I’m good to go. Well, your piece of my entree is under 200 milligrams once I add in my pasta, my sauce and my cheese. Now that’s not just 200 milligrams. So making sure that they understand how they play a role in this is huge.

Lauren Couchois (00:11:27):And with that said, it’s gonna take time to reformulate. I always say I am in the business of feeding kids. That is what I’m wanting to do. That’s the type of food I’m wanting to put out. I’m not gonna wanna put out anything that they don’t like. That’s not the purpose of why I’m in this business. So with that said, it’s all about student acceptance too. I hope that manufacturers, I hope that districts also will do some student taste testing. It’s a great, great way to get their buy-in once they’re a part of it. Also, it won’t be such a change for them if we start these gradual changes. It’s not gonna be like, oh, we have a sodium level June 30th, 2027 in July 1st, 2027, we completely cut it out and now the product tastes completely different as well. So just keep that in mind too as we approach these upcoming guidelines.

Lauren Couchois (00:12:17): Something else that I think is definitely worth mentioning is not everybody’s workforce has the ability to cook from scratch. Scratch cooking is a great solution to this issue when we’re trying to reduce our sodium because it gives us complete control of what is going into those items. I know very few districts that cook everything from scratch. Some might do one or two items, but the majority are doing speed scratch. So also not just the skill level of our staff, but also making sure that they have the equipment they need. We can’t ask them to start changing the way that they’re doing their recipes and not provide them the right tools.

Joe Urban (00:12:55): Yeah, and one, one thing we talk about, Lauren, when we work with districts who are trying to improve their program you know, they’re like, Hey, we want to go to a total scratch program. You know, we, we help walk them through what some of the challenges of that are is gonna be in their district. Do they have proper staffing levels? Do they have adequate training for the staffing levels? Is there skillset there? What does their equipment look like? How many server lines they have? How much time do they have to get through through the server line? So what we think is the, the right approach for school food service is a, a balance of scratch, speed, scratch and high quality prepared items. And then when I explain that to people, the one question I always get is, okay, what’s the percentage?

Joe Urban (00:13:39): That’s the right amount? That’s different for every school district, right? So that’s different. So understanding your, your staffing levels, your skillset, what your capabilities are with your infrastructure, really, once you figure that out, then you can determine, all right, how much scratch can I do? How much speed scratch can I do, if any? And then how much high quality prepared items we can mix in in there. And I know we got a couple manufacturers who chatted here in the chat and, and you know, Candace asks, you know, one of the, one of the questions they continually ask their customers base is what do they want from us regarding sodium? And the difficulty she gets is, you know, someone says, just reduce, you know, and it doesn’t, that doesn’t really help them. You got Laura on here also with comments that they’ve already added lower added sugar items, they have them available and they’re actively working on lowering added sugars for the items typically that are higher to help meet the exceed the weekly averages. So just know that manufacturers are out there working hard every day to try to make sure that they’re gonna be able to continue to provide products for schools that are gonna meet these regulations. And as hard as it is on us at the school level us at the consultant level it’s equally if not harder on the manufacturer level because these changes come so quickly sometimes and they have to react and be able to try to stay ahead of it. So they’re out there helping you guys. So don’t worry about that.

Lauren Couchois (00:15:09): Joe. We just had somebody ask, what’s the difference between scratch and speed scratch? I’m gonna let you answer that in a little bit more detail because when it comes to cooking, I’m the killjoy, I’m the Dietitian. So I’m the one that comes in and is like, that was an amazing recipe. Now let’s take this out. So my understanding of scratch versus feed scratch is all from a dietetic perspective. So I’m gonna let you talk about it from a culinary perspective.

Joe Urban (00:15:34): Right? So I mean pretty simple. When you think scratch food, you’re, you’re doing everything from scratch. You’re, you’re making the dough, you’re peeling and boiling your tomatoes for your tomato sauce. So I mean, scratch cooking is you’re doing everything from fresh. When you talk about speed scratch cooking which is where I think a lot of districts need to, to be headed towards more of, you’re, you’re looking at fresh ingredients plus some high quality prepared ingredients. So a really high quality prepared chicken filet that you can use. Now, if you’re doing that scratch, you’re gonna bread that chicken yourself. You’re gonna shallow fry that chicken yourself if you’re doing a speech scratch version of something that incorporates a breaded chicken chunk using a high quality prepared breaded chicken chunk in something that maybe you prepare the sauce for. So it’s a combination of fresh and high quality prepared ingredients. That’s the simplest version of the difference there.

Speaker 4 (00:16:41): Perfect.

Joe Urban (00:16:45): So somebody just mentioned it, they said, hopefully we can find a balance of things kids love, like breaded chicken products, but utilize screech speed, scratch cooking with veggies and sauces. Perfect example right there. Yep,

Lauren Couchois (00:16:56): Exactly. I like to think of this not from a perspective of like, this is so hard. What do we do? Can’t do anything. It’s more of a, we’re pretty resilient guys. I don’t know any other profession, school nutrition professionals that have been able to rise above any challenge that has come their way and make it work. And for me this, like the biggest example is COVID. We were on the front lines. If we can get through curbside feeding of COVID, we’re gonna be able to handle some sodium and sugar regulations. It’s really gonna be okay. And I think sometimes changing our mindset to think about instead of, this is so hard, I don’t know what to do, it’s what can I do? So look at this for opportunities and ways that you might be able to bring in more local procurement. And like Laura said, from the top, I love Farm to School.

Lauren Couchois (00:17:45): I will find a way to bring it into any conversation, but I really think that this is a perfect time where we can look to bring in more fresh vegetables, more fresh fruit, look at ways to get our staff more involved as well. Sharing this message with your community is going to get major buy-in from your parents and the support of your community and school staff as well. So definitely don’t be afraid to get innovative. I think sometimes our best tapped or untapped resources are our people. They are on the front lines, they’re the ones in the kitchen. Knowing what it’s like to cook and serve these items, lean on them, ask them like, Hey, we’ve got this coming. Get them involved. Let them know what challenges you’re facing and see if they can come up with something innovative in a way to change a recipe to make it better, to change a recipe to lower the sodium. I mean, there’s going to be things that our staff have ideas for and we’re just not even aware of those ideas yet. So definitely get them involved. And don’t be afraid to think outside the box. Like sometimes it’s crazy until it’s genius, right? Do it. Let’s see what happens chase test with those kids and see if they like it. So definitely the innovation, the community and the sharing of best practices is gonna go a long way as we face these upcoming regulations.

Lauren Couchois (00:19:08):Somebody said, share your knowledge. I think we all know like one of the best things about being in this industry is we can’t steal each other’s customers. I love reminding people all of that. I have an amazing idea. I want everybody to be doing it. I hope all students across the nation are being able to benefit from everybody else. So yes, share best practices for sure. All right, so another strategy in reducing your sodium would be for smarter purchasing. Start working with your distributors early and start working with those manufacturers and vendors and talking about requesting those reformulate items. I love Candace’s statement just reduced. We know what those reductions are. We have the access to those charts for the milligrams that we have in a weekly average. If you guys don’t have that readily available to you, it’s on USDA website.

Lauren Couchois (00:19:54): It’s also on the Institute of Child Nutrition website. Those are two of my favorite resources to use because it’s very factual. So it also helps keep some of that emotion out of like the end all be all of all of a sudden, you know, our food’s gonna be bland, is it? Because there’s ways to work around that. So start working with them and being more particular in the language we use with them on what we’re looking for and what our kids are looking for. And definitely pilot and taste test those items with your student. They’re the true customer in this. This picture here is a big shout out to Leah Bako. She did an amazing taste test just recently with a manufacturer that we’re actually working with. They’re new to the school nutrition world. They have an amazing product. They are called 50 Cut.

Lauren Couchois (00:20:42): They do mushroom and beef blend burgers and meatballs. And that mushroom helps give that umami flavor without adding in sodium. So again, there’s an amazing solution for how do I keep my flavor there without adding in salt. There’s definitely ways to do it. And I love the picture of this taste test because it was a sticker if you liked it and if a sticker, if it wasn’t for you, and you guys can see like we don’t give our kids enough credit for being adventurous eaters. Look how many kids absolutely loved that product. Oh and another thing about that company too, I wasn’t here to really give you guys a sales pitch today, <laugh>, however we love them, amazing product. We have their recipes, we’re going to upload them into Health-e Pro’s global system as well. So everybody can access them if you wanna check those out too, but pilot with your kids. They’re the ones that are gonna be eating this. We need to know what they’re wanting and what isn’t working for them. The name of the company is 50 Cut, like the number five, zero cut, 50 Cut.

Joe Urban (00:21:41): Yeah. And you can email Lauren or I or both of us and we can, we can get you set up with them and get you samples.

Lauren Couchois (00:21:49): So I, I touched on menu engineering before. Again, I think if you come from the restaurant world, people think of menu engineering in terms of price as a Dietitian, I think of menu engineering in terms of making it work within USDA regulations. I, we’re here with Health-e Pro today, but I truly love Health-e Pro. They’re an amazing system. That quick flag of red, yellow, green helps you know if your products are working, if your menus are working, not your products, sorry if your menus are working. They have all of today’s current standard regulations in their system. So you know, what you’re working with is true to today’s standards. Again, reiterating that this is a weekly average of sodium, not a daily. So menu engineering might come in that you think, man, this one product is high and it might be, but does it work within your weekly average?

Lauren Couchois (00:22:37):So if you’re menuing one day where you’re milligrams of sodium are higher than others, look at where can I reduce it on other days to get that average within the range for the USDA regulations. Some very easy swaps of course are are spices and fresh toppings. Herbs go a long way again, Farm to School girl. So love my school gardens for growing those herbs that we can take right from the garden into the kitchen and have kids be a part of the process of making their making their food. Sorry, I got distracted by Mike’s question there. Mike. Please reach out to us and we would be happy to help you with that. Another creative swap is things like our fresh toppings, like condiments are super easy to put out, but pico de gallo, you know, over a prepackaged item is going to be way less in sodium. I saw somebody mention at the top of the webinar flavoring with citrus as well. Absolutely. Even flavoring with some of our own vegetables like chives, that’s a huge burst of flavor without an ounce of sodium. So there’s definitely ways to get creative with how we reduce our sodium, keep our flavor and potentially enhance our flavor.

Lauren Couchois (00:23:54): Student engagement. Again, shout out to Leah and what she did with those kids there. Definitely do that. If you don’t have staffing, if you don’t have the ability to do taste tests in the cafeteria every day. I used to love utilizing my student council groups, getting them in, asking them what they’re liking, what they’re eating, what they’re not. And then from there you can kind of get a sense of, you know, is this even an educated group to speak to me about school lunch? ’cause Sometimes the kids in the school council, it’s like, I’ll have 15 kids in front of me and one eat school lunch. And I’m like, all right. So gives you an idea of even their knowledge of what you’re serving them, what they like to eat. But also you don’t have to talk just about school lunch. What are you guys eating outside of the school?

Lauren Couchois (00:24:38): What’s your favorite home cooked meal? Getting them engaged, getting their information is a great way to know. Do I have opportunity to change some things on my menu? And we cannot discredit marketing, right? That is what’s driving engagement with our students is marketing. Don’t be afraid to call something kind of funky. Don’t be afraid to point out seasonal things. Like if I see one more commercial for pumpkin spice, anything, I might lose it in September has only just started. However, pumpkin spice is huge. They’re buying it like crazy. So think of some fun ways that you can incorporate those types of things into your menu and into your marketing. Like what are the kids seeing out there that we can appeal to them in our cafeterias and on our menus?

Lauren Couchois (00:25:26): Okay, so we talked about these simple swaps here. Really easy one to do right off the bat if you’re not doing already. I highly recommend getting away from canned vegetables with the exception of legumes. You have the ability to get in fresh would be awesome. Fresh and local. Don’t get me started. That would be amazing. But also frozen. There’s no shame in frozen vegetables. Those things are just as nutritious as our fresh, but the canned, that is a real easy way to add in sodium when you’re not trying to. So if we can get away from a lot of our canned items, that would be helpful. And you know, we might have staff that don’t know how to cook with spices and herbs. Have them start testing, thump some things out, seeing what tastes good. We don’t wanna accidentally add in an herb where it does not belong. And then we’ve ruined our favorite recipes. So using your spices, using your herbs, and then working with our manufacturers. We know we got a ton of low sodium products out there already, especially when it comes to our sauces and condiments and glazes. So keep your eye out for that because you might be using a regular glaze and the next thing you know, they’ve got a low sodium one out there you weren’t aware of. So be on the lookout for those things too. And just talk with your vendors and manufacturers.

Lauren Couchois (00:26:42):Staff training. Staff training I think is one of the biggest things that we cannot overlook when we’re talking about providing quality food to our kids. So our staff, I think, I don’t know everybody in the audience, if you are working at the frontline of the kitchen, you are a part of the office staff, you are an admin, a director, somewhere along those lines. But we cannot just bark orders to people and expect them to do without some kind of understanding. I think it’s very beneficial when our staff understands why these changes are coming. Sometimes they’ll think like, oh, the director’s just crazy. She must hate us. Like I’ve heard the craziest excuses as to why they do things without telling me the real reason why they do things. Making sure they understand, making sure they understand the compliance. We can’t go making some menu changes without getting our request first.

Lauren Couchois (00:27:35): My example of that is always with vegetables. I don’t know how many people think, well, I can just swap out green beans for broccoli. They’re both green. They’re not, they’re green and colored. They don’t fall under the same subcategory of vegetables. So they must be making menu change requests, especially ’cause we don’t wanna mess with our weekly average of sodium. So those standardized recipes, if you haven’t taken a look at your recipes in a while, now’s the time. Take a look, see, are they up to date? Do they fit within our standards? Does everybody have access to those standardized recipes? I know that some people kind of give a little bit more freedom to their staff to do what they like. I recommend watching out for that. I don’t know how many of us have heard staff members say, oh, but my babies like it this way.

Lauren Couchois (00:28:24): Well, the way your babies like it is putting me outta compliance and I don’t want my reimbursement held <laugh>. So we’re gonna stick to a standardized recipe. I call those people my cooking with love people like, oh, that doesn’t taste good, baby, let me add in a little bit more salt for you. Please, no, please don’t do that. Please follow a standardized recipe. If they understand the why of those standardized recipes, they’re way more likely to want to do the right thing. And again, this all goes back to our kids. We are in the business of feeding children. We are in the business of feeding kids healthy meals they want to eat. So helping them understand too much sodium. It’s really not good for these guys. We’ve got ranges for a reason.

Lauren Couchois (00:29:10): So to recap, basically when it comes to sodium, my biggest thing is to be proactive. Right now we are in target one, we know the next target is coming July 1st, 2027. It is not the time to act in June of 2027, January of 2027 is a little too late in my perspective. Let’s start now. Let’s get those items ready. Now let’s get our students used to those items. Now test your products and get their acceptance. Never underestimate the true power your staff holds in making your meal program the best it can be. Make sure they’re trained well, but also that they have the equipment and tools they need to do the job you are expecting of them. And again, I love a good spice and herb in place of salt, but it’s gotta be appropriate to the recipe. We don’t wanna ruin a student favorite and get way too creative or add in the wrong thing when we’re really trying just to make their food as flavorful for them as we possibly can. So get them involved, get their feedback and train your staff.

Lauren Couchois (00:30:16): All right, now, sugar. So we have two nutrients that we’re talking about today, but honestly the regulations around them are pretty different. Sodium is a weekly average of sodium. Sugar does not have a weekly average yet. Right now the new SU sugar regulations that came into effect of this year only relate to breakfast, milk and yogurt. That is it. No weekly average on those. So everybody can take a deep breath. And if you really wanna think of it in simpler terms, focus on cereal, milk, yogurt. So what is added sugar? FDA defines added sugar as included sugars that are added during the processing of food foods packaged as sweeteners and sugars from syrups and honey. This also includes sugars from concentrated fruit and vegetable juices. So that is all added sugar. All of our current sugar regulations are related to three very specific items and added sugar only, not total of all sugars. So with that said, what is not added sugar, it does not include things that are naturally occurring in our fruits, in our vegetables. So again, added sugar only. Not sugar overall on any given item unless it is a cereal, milk or yogurt. And not on a weekly average yet.

Lauren Couchois (00:31:43): What we have that just was implemented, these are our current sugar standards that just went into effect this school year. You cannot have more than six grams of added sugar per ounce of cereal. This might be a good time if you haven’t done so already. Look at your inventory, look at your order guides, make sure you’re ordering in the proper cereal so that we’re not accidentally bringing in things that are no longer in compliance sugar on cereal. The other thing is to know it’s per ounce. So if you have a two ounce bowl pack, it can be more than six grams of sugar. It cannot be more than six grams of sugar per ounce yogurt. It cannot be more than 12 grams of added sugar per six ounces of yogurt. Be sure that you look at that pretty closely. Again, nothing super simple here because none of these items have the same amount of sugar or added sugar per so we’ve gotta be mindful that we’re looking at the right amount of added sugar to the right item.

Lauren Couchois (00:32:46): So no more than 12 grams for yogurt for every six ounces of yogurt. And no more than 10 grams of added sugar per eight ounces of milk, eight ounces of milk is what we’re all typically serving in our breakfast and lunch programs. But I did wanna point out, ’cause I think it’s worth mentioning, if you’re selling milk as a competitive food at middle and high school, it cannot be more than 15 grams of sugar per 12 fluid ounces. I focus here on our meal programs because this is where we’re really looking at is our breakfast and lunch. But if you are doing milk as a competitive food sold a la carte that is middle and high school, it can’t be more than 15 grams per 12 fluid ounces for our meal program. No more than 10 per eight ounces.

Lauren Couchois (00:33:58): Okay, so our sugar standards, again, be proactive. Let’s not wait till the last minute. Let’s make sure we’re doing what we’re supposed to be doing. Review your current items, work with your manufacturers, work with your brokers. If you have Dietitians on staff or if you don’t, you can always reach out to consultants that can help you understand this a little bit better. The more we work with more school districts, the more I understand our smaller districts don’t all have dieticians on staff. And then we get to like other districts where you have 10 on staff and I am like mind blown on both directions of no Dietitians to 10. There’s other ways to get information too. So you can reach out to your consultants, you can reach out to your state agencies. Again, I absolutely love the Institute of Child Nutrition. They are amazing to help out with this. And I see this question here from Alice in stipulations in place about replacing and it went away. I’m so sorry, Laura or Joe, what was that question from her about sweeteners? Are there…

Joe Urban (00:34:56): Any stipulations in place about replacing added sugar with artificial sweeteners?

Lauren Couchois (00:35:00): There’s no stipulation in place that you can’t do that, but if the added sweetener adds added sugar, it’s going to fall within those ranges of the added sugar per cereal, milk or yogurt. So keep that in mind, like things like your smoothies too. Be mindful of those. One of my other things though guys, about being proactive is we really need to think from, like, when I hear proactive, I think on the positive side, like what am I going to do to make sure we are okay and that we are doing the right thing. When we start talking about like, oh, they’re taking the sugar out of everything. Oh, our food’s gonna be so bland. No it’s not. And they’re not taking the sugar out of everything. We do have ranges and limits. That doesn’t mean that there is no sugar anymore When we start talking like that, we’re not doing ourselves any favors. We really need to look at the facts, focus on those, and focus on resolution of any potential obstacles or problems that we have. Not, not the freak out of, you know, the world is ending over sugar and sodium. It’s this is what I’m given and how do I meet that goal? And we’re able to do that. We are so able to, again, school nutrition professionals we’re amazing. I mean, not that I’m biased or anything, but we’re amazing.

Lauren Couchois (00:36:21): So what is coming are the weekly averages that is not taking effect until July 1st, 2027. Same timeline as the upcoming sodium weekly ranges when we hit July 1st, 2027. As it stands right now, there will be weekly ranges for sugar and it has to do with no more than 10% of the calories coming from added sugar. This is again, where we need to be proactive. This is where our nutrition software programs like Health-e Pro really are going to help us understand are the products that we’re putting on our menu meeting the range that USDA has put in place. This is not today’s problem. This is today’s start to figure out solutions in two years. This is not something we need to worry about right now. Again, today as it stands, sugar regulations are only for cereal, yogurt, milk, no weekly averages. This is what is coming. This is again about being proactive. We know it’s coming. Let’s be proactive to be ready for it.

Joe Urban (00:37:27): Yeah, it’s a, it’s a good time to start looking at your menus and start thinking about what they’re gonna look like in a year and a half from now. And, you know, manufacturers are doing the same and, you know, trying to future proof some of the products that they’re manufacturing now for schools. So when I say future proof, I mean they’re developing products now that are gonna meet these standards that are coming in in 2027. It’s a good time to start future proof in your menus as well.

Lauren Couchois (00:37:56): I did see that question come in about Greek yogurt. I’m gonna touch on that in just one second. So I don’t want you to think we didn’t see your question. I saw you some key challenges coming very similar to our sodium. We might have some reformulation lag from producers. One thing that I also think we need to kind of be on the lookout for is menu fatigue. When we get to certain items, have certain limits. We don’t wanna just keep putting out the same thing over and over again. So maybe the variety of items that we’re putting out lowers of that one category. Then let’s look at other ways to add in some other fun breakfast items. I always think of breakfast when it comes to the sugar for yogurt and milk and cereal, but yeah, just be mindful of that, that we don’t, just because variety lacks in one category doesn’t mean that we have to stay in that category.

Lauren Couchois (00:38:43):We can look at other items out there. There’s the potential for higher cost as manufacturers reformulate their product. And again, our student acceptance. So are kids going to eat this. I don’t wanna put out food. Kids aren’t going to eat, so let’s get them involved early on. And all of that is really going to be what drives our menus so smarter purchasing, just like our sodium. Let’s work with our distributors, manufacturers, and vendors early. Let’s talk about a request for reformulated items. Let them know what you are looking for and be as specific as you possibly can. And then start pilot and taste testing with your kids. Get them involved. Get their feedback and student engagement. So taste tests are huge. We talked about that a few times already, but I also like to think of this as maybe a time for a rebrand. As far as it goes for yogurt.

Lauren Couchois (00:39:39): So talking about your Greek yogurt, huge fan of Greek yogurt. Amazing protein content. That’s where I would focus. I’m not gonna call this out for being a low sugar yogurt. I’m gonna call this out for being a high protein yogurt. So maybe think of how we menu things, how we talk about things with our kids. Stay away from the negative. I think the term less or lower already has a negative connotation in our head that they’re not getting as much as staying away from that type of language in our marketing. And focus on things that are maybe either trending right now. What we’re hearing from our kids to want. Those are all opportunities for rebranding. So you’re a Greek yogurt, high in protein, plain Greek yogurt. Not the most fun flavorful thing for a kid to eat. I’m actually working on a recipe right now where we’re looking at maybe a tiramisu type of parfait.

Lauren Couchois (00:40:29): I think that would be a great way to incorporate Greek yogurt. Get your protein content in there, get your meat/meat alternate portion, and then also just adding in some cinnamon and some fresh fruit. I don’t have to worry about my added sugar in that because added sugar is only related to adding in sugar, not naturally occurring sugars and fruits, but cinnamon is a spice that’s a great spice to use for things like that. I saw in the chat somebody had mentioned some sugar-free syrups and then somebody else questioned, well, are they actually better? That’s all personal preference and there is research out there that I would gear you guys to, to go read and formulate your own opinion on those. But I also think from a dietetic perspective, my own personal perspective a little bit isn’t hurting anybody. If we’re adding in some flavor for our kids for something they’re going to eat and that’s how I’m getting them to get their protein content in. Awesome. It’s like the argument on chocolate milk. They’re drinking their milk, they’re getting their nutrients, you know, from minimal added flavoring and sugar in there. I’d rather that they get the nutrients. Again, I know I’ve said it several times already, but I go back to I’m in the business of feeding kids. I want them to get nutrition. I don’t want them to throw their food away.

Lauren Couchois (00:41:42): Our staff, there’s our friends in Horry County first training. We can’t underestimate how important it is. Our staff understands what we’re doing and that they are trained properly to do it. Again, this goes back to no menu changes without requests, but for training. I mean, not for nothing guys, SFR it’s like our favorite thing to do is to visit districts or host districts here and do one-on-one in-person training with you and your staff. It is so beneficial. There’s, you know, people that do this all the time, but I think when we all get together like this and we can really get outside of our comfort box and we can talk about innovative and fun ways and giving our staff free range to try new things, again, they come up some really innovative ways of using the products that I’d never thought of before.

Lauren Couchois (00:42:32): So if anybody’s interested, we love doing trainings in person. We do some virtually as well. But definitely making sure that if it’s not us, your staff is getting training somewhere along the lines. We can’t just expect them to meet our standards when we don’t teach them how to rise to those standards. So definitely train your staff, keep up to date with all of your menus, all of your SOPs as well to make sure that they are in compliance with today’s current regulations and staying consistent. I always say like we, I think everybody’s probably heard this term, that you’re the largest restaurant chain in your county or in your district. Consistency really matters from one day to the next. All of that to me is about building trust with our customer. I don’t wanna provide an amazing meal one day and they love it and then they look forward to it and the next time it comes out, it’s not cooked the same way. We’ve lost that trust from that student that we’re going to be providing quality food to them every time. Making sure our staff knows what to do, how to do it, and how to do it every time is very important.

Lauren Couchois (00:43:38): So to recap, yogurt, milk, cereal, those are our focuses for right now. Will this change, could it change before July 1st, 2027? Totally. We’ve all been in this business. If you’ve been in this business two years, you know, things change very quickly. It could change. I don’t work for the USDA, I’m not here representing the USDA today. I don’t know the answer to. Is that a definitive yes or no? I don’t know. Is it a possibility? 100%. So

Joe Urban (00:44:11): Let’s, ready. There’s a, there’s a possibility that the regulations will change before we finish this webinar. That’s the industry we live in, right?

Lauren Couchois (00:44:19): And they’re gonna be like, Lauren, you lied.

Joe Urban (00:44:21): Yeah, no change are coming. And they will continue to come and they’re gonna be frustrating and scary and all those things. And one thing I’ve, for being in this industry for so long is, look, you, you can’t change the fact that change is coming. You got people on the manufacturer side that are trying to stay ahead of this. You got talented people within your districts, it’s gonna be okay. Is it gonna be difficult? Yes, it a hundred percent. It’s gonna be difficult. Is it gonna change again as soon as you get accustomed to the new change? Probably. So that’s the industry we’re in, but we always get through it. We always have, we always will. And we, I, I think we have everybody on our side advocating for positive change at the SNA level. We have manufacturers that are very invested in here. We got amazing districts around the country that do a great job and are willing to share their best practices with their neighbors. And there’s amazing consultants out there that are working with school districts as well. So it’s gonna change, hopefully not before this webinar gets over, but maybe you never know.

Lauren Couchois (00:45:33): Let’s hope not. Let’s get used to what we’re working with now, right? But definitely use your menu tools, use your nutrition software. Health-e Pro is an amazing resource for making sure that you guys are in compliance for what you’re doing for your menus. And again, engage your students early. Don’t try to make changes last minute and don’t try to make huge changes all at one time. Little gradual changes along the way to get to your end goal. All of it. By the time you get here, kids aren’t even going to realize that things changed because it was such a gradual shift. So don’t jump too big too soon. And don’t wait till the last minute. Make those gradual shifts now. Again, that’s pretty much what I just said. Making sure that we review what we have, review your menus, review your spec sheets, make sure your spec sheets are matching the products coming in. Last thing you guys want is an auditor to find an issue for something you didn’t even know was a problem. So review what’s already on hand and make sure that you have the most up-to-date information in your kitchens and in your offices. And again, just start those gradual shifts. Now, tiny little steps will get you to that end goal that will have a longer lasting effect instead of one big change at one time.

Lauren Couchois (00:47:00): And all of this goes back to our kids, right? We’re all in this to make sure that we are feeding quality meals to our students. So the whole impact of what we’re doing and what we’re working towards with our regulations while providing quality food to our kids, it’s all about aligning with the dietary guidelines for Americans, USDA regulations, Healthy Hunger Free Kids Act. Also, it’s a great way to build trust within your community and with your students when you’re providing quality meal meals to your students and have an amazing meal program. And then the outcome is all about having healthier kids. We are, the number one way in which healthy lifelong eating habits are formed is by what the kids eat in school. Make sure you’re providing quality food to those kids that help formulate those healthy eating habits. For them. It’s all about our future generations being as healthy as they possibly can. And we are a big part of that process.

Lauren Couchois (00:48:01): These are my resources for what we did today, but I highly, highly recommend you guys reach out and utilize these resources as well. I mentioned Institute of Child Nutrition several times, USDA, Health-e Pro software. You cannot go wrong. It talks like it doesn’t literally talk to you, but it will flash at you and let you know if anything is wrong. So, great software system to use and please feel free to reach out to us. We love doing trainings. I’m not sure if everybody’s aware and gosh, Joe, I hope this is okay to mention. We are now working with cool school and you can use your cool school points to also have us come out and do training at no cost to you. So look for support and training. If it’s not with us, we would love to be a part of it, but if it’s not with the, there’s plenty of opportunity out there to make sure your staff is properly trained.

Laura Thompson (00:48:54): Awesome. I know we tackled a lot of the questions as we have been going along, but I know there are also many questions that have been coming through as we’ve continued. And so thank you everybody for putting your questions into the chat. We’re gonna tackle the ones that we can. There are more than we can probably tackle in this time. But we did see a lot of questions that came in as people were registering and I know you touched on it a little bit, but I would love to hear a little bit more. What are some ideas for breakfast without relying on muffins and breads

Lauren Couchois (00:49:24): Without relying on muffins and what, I’m sorry,

Laura Thompson (00:49:26): Muffins and breads.

Lauren Couchois (00:49:30): Proteins for sure. You know, it’s one of the silliest things about the USDA regulations is that a meat can count as a grain. Why are we still using that language? Let’s call it what it is, but whatever. But definitely those types of items. Yogurt is great. Parfaits are one of the highest selling breakfast items I see across districts. It’s great to have at breakfast. You can serve it as a breakfast component or I’m sorry, as a complete meal with all the components. You can also sell it a la carte smart snack compliant. Great way to get the protein in. Great way to get them to their fruits as well. I know a lot of districts doing great work with smoothies that are also one item total meal compliant. I’m trying to think of some other ones. The biscuits and like building your sausage or chicken biscuits as well is a good one.

Lauren Couchois (00:50:17): I kind of like when districts build on the line instead of putting out a pre-wrapped sandwich because if the student doesn’t want the biscuit, they don’t have to take it. So making sure that we’re still putting out protein items for them that don’t have any sugar, that are reduced sodium. There’s definite ways to look at things that are out there without just doing muffins and breads. If you are restricted to i, it totally gets trickier. It definitely gets trickier. A lot of the manufacturers though for cereal are already in compliance for that six milligrams per I’m sorry, six grams per ounce of cereal. So be on the lookout for those too ’cause they’re compliant and they come pre-wrapped and packed in a bowl for you.

Laura Thompson (00:51:02): Awesome, thank you. Here’s another question that I thought was could provide some really interesting answers. What are some favorite low sodium entrees or veggie sides that students love?

Lauren Couchois (00:51:16): I, we showed a picture of it. I didn’t really touch on it. Before I get too distracted, I just saw somebody type out that bistro box, 100% cheese, egg fruit. Love that idea. Fantastic idea. Just wanna make sure everybody saw that if you didn’t see her, her response there. The low sodium veggies and things, roasted fresh vegetables, it’s a pretty easy way to put out fresh vegetables that also looks great on the line. Nice vibrant colors. You just put some herbs on there. You don’t have to even add salt. You can like, we can still add salt guys too. That’s the other thing. Some people will get so afraid of our sodium regulations and think that they can’t add salt. There’s added sugar, there’s no regulations on added salt, salt weekly ranges. So you can add in salt and be within your range.

Lauren Couchois (00:52:06): Still. I’ve done those rested roasted vegetables without the salt, but that’s a super popular one. I’m trying to think of some of the more entree ones that aren’t high sodium. You know, salads aren’t as low sodium as people think they are by the time we add in, typically it’s some kind of processed meat cheese that adds up some sodium quickly on there. So I think a lot of go-to is like, well what about a salad? It’s really not as low sodium as we think when there’s other things out there. So I’m trying to think of some of the staple entrees I’ve used in menu planning that are low sodium. Joe, feel free if you’ve got something on the top of your mind while I’m thinking

Joe Urban (00:52:48): It. Like I said, salad people. Yeah, people look, look at salad, you know, good speed scratch recipes that are lower in sodium. Again, I’ll go back to one of the comments that one of our manufacturing friends Candice said in here. You know, what do you consider lower? You know, everybody, everybody has a different definition of that, but lots of lots of pasta dishes that we’ve used with and ramen dishes that we use with, you know, prepared chicken products and low sodium broths and glazes that have worked out really good. You know, especially when we roast vegetables, caramelize onions and peppers in there to add a little bit of extra umami, even with some low sodium soy in there, there’s lots of different combinations. So when you say what’s, what are good low sodium ones everybody has a different definition of that, right?

Joe Urban (00:53:43):You know, are you talking an entree with 250 milligrams or, or do you want one with 800 or a thousand milligrams of sodium in it? And you know, everybody has a different definition of where they wanna stay per entree. And I think the most important thing is to utilize menu engineering practices to balance your menus out for student preference. We’re even gonna talk about cost right now, but it should be used for that as well. Student preference with, you know, menu and things that may be a little higher in sodium mixed with things that are lower in sodium and using those over the course of the week. And so you can stay within that range. You know, it’s really, it’s a numbers game. There are, there are rules and regulations for sodium, calories and fat and everything else, but it’s really a numbers game. So it’s really how do you position those menu items on your weekly menu? Pair them up daily so kids will accept them in a certain level and then over the course of the week, you know, serving kids, serving a, a menu that, that kids are gonna accept but also keeps you within that, within all those regulations.

Lauren Couchois (00:54:50): I was gonna say pasta dishes as well. Especially red sauce over like a white or a cheese sauce. However you guys can get creative with that and mix a little bit of both. Like a little bit of marinara with an Alfredo. Call it a vodka. Now you chefs out there that wanna yell at me and tell me that’s not a vodka sauce. Come at me. I hear you. I agree. But to our kids, you call it something a little bit different. We keep our sodium within our ranges and now we’ve still created an amazing pasta dish that honestly for them might even be new to them. Yeah. So there’s, there’s ways to mix and match some things too.

Joe Urban (00:55:28): Yeah. Don’t underestimate global seasonings and herbs and spices, right? Because that’s, that’s what kids are looking for right now. Yeah. Global flavors and there’s lots of opportunities to add spices and herbs with global flare that are gonna elevate the meals and kind of mimic what the kids are getting out there in the community without really jumping that sodium up.

Laura Thompson (00:55:50): I loved the comment too. Carrie mentioned it earlier of use, use your fellow school nutrition professionals is a resource. Talk to each other and we’re seeing some great comments in the chat. Someone is suggesting, you know, salt seasoning from GFS, someone else is suggesting a homemade coleslaw and salad dressing using vinegar to cut sodium. We see one of our favorite things that we love about this industry is there is so much collaboration. ’cause It’s not competition. Yes. Right? And use, use the resources around you. Talk to other people in districts nearby, find out what’s working for them. There are so many great resources in talking to the people around you that I think absolutely what Carrie said earlier you know, talk with the other people around you that have this great knowledge. Another comment or question that we had is, you touched on it a little bit, we’d love to hear if you have any other insights, is how do you get staff buy-in when there are these changes?

Joe Urban (00:56:41): So in my opinion, and I’ll let Lauren chime in on this as well it’s very important for us as leaders to explain to our people the why. You know, when we just tell ’em things are changing and we don’t talk about why, I think it’s, it’s difficult for staff to really accept and embrace it. It is important for them to understand the why. The why is one always kids first. So first and foremost, we need to be doing the best things that we can for our students. All right? Then there’s the regulations. I always put the students first. Then there’s the regulations that at the end of the day we are funded by USDA and it’s encumbering on us to make sure that we’re following the rules as they are presented to us today. Which again, will probably change tomorrow, but it is encumbered on us to follow those rules and regulations and guidelines.

Joe Urban (00:57:37):Or we lose funding, we lose funding, we lose staffing. So they need to understand the why. It’s not just a director saying, I’m gonna get on a soapbox and talk about how I hate sodium or how I hate regular grain versus whole grains and just make these changes on our menu. No, there’s rules we have to follow. There’s rules we have to follow. We can like them, we can dislike them, but there are rules we have to follow. And so explaining that to them in a matter that that helps them better understand, in my opinion, will usually help them embrace any change that comes. There always has to be the why when you ask people to change.

Lauren Couchois (00:58:17): Definitely agree. Biggest thing is the why for staff buy-in. I also think it helps if you are willing to get in there with them. An email coming from your office does not speak as loudly as you in person showing that you’re willing to do the work too. And I think buy-in comes in when you show them that you care what they have to say. You don’t wanna just tell them like, yo, your opinion matters to me. And then as they give it, you don’t listen or you write it off. Yeah. Hear what they have to say. And if it’s something that’s completely impossible explaining why it can’t, maybe they’re gonna be the ones that think of then let’s just change it this way to make it something we can do. So get in there with your people. I think that goes a long way.

Laura Thompson (00:58:57): Amen to that. And I love Maureen’s comment about prop up your staff with fun professional development days or all get to prepare recipes and sample debunk the miss that it’s too hard, it takes too much time and doesn’t taste good. They then become the menu champions that forward that onto the kiddos. And I think that is a fantastic comment there.

Lauren Couchois (00:59:15): 100%.

Joe Urban (00:59:15): Love of the things we do when we bring districts in here into our facility here in Greenville or we visit them is, you know, we, we get into quick little demonstrations, but then we break off into groups and do ideation sessions and we just tell ’em, look, get creative, have fun. You know what your kids like. Don’t follow a recipe right now. Create something cool and then it becomes this amazing interactive activity amongst four separate groups trying to create the coolest stuff. And that’s a great tool for, for you guys to do within your own teams when you have PD days that, that you’re able to bring some staff in for training and just give them the products that you have on, on hand, you know, the chicken, the beef, the whatever you have that you currently use in, in your, in your kitchens. Give them a plethora of fresh fruits and vegetables and just say, go have fun. Go have fun, create something cool. Don’t worry about recipes or, or meal pattern crediting or anything at that point. We’ll worry about that afterwards. And that’s a great, you know, hands-on group activity that will get them engaged and get them to buy in on your program too. Then you gotta go back and make those recipes compliant. So I don’t wanna, I’m not saying you don’t have to do that, but you let them do the creative work up front and then you can modify it.

Laura Thompson (01:00:33): Awesome. Thank you so much Joe and Lauren for this webinar today. Fantastic information here and thank you everyone for sharing your comments and questions and insights in the chat. We have two links that we have just dropped in the chat for you. One is the, the form to get professional development credit for this webinar as well as a link to register for our next webinar, which is next month on October 15th around building allergen friendly menus. So again, thank you so much Joe and Lauren for your time today. And if you have any questions for Joe and Lauren, you’re welcome to email them. You can also email us as well at Healthy Pro. Thank you so much and we will see you soon. Thank you everyone. Thanks guys.